I want to help preserve and improve people's capacity to communicate freely with each other electronically, and spread it to more people. One way I see to help is by encouraging, supporting and promoting free software, and other free culture movements. That's why I keep trying to make more use of systems and services that are part of those movements, and less of others. That's part of my reason for quitting FaceBook.
What triggered my withdrawal from FaceBook was some research I did after reading an article about how FaceBook was used by an application that could be used by stalkers. I decided that I was undermining other people's safety and security by using FaceBook.
Monday, April 16, 2012
Wednesday, January 4, 2012
Working with Baha'is who think or suspect that they are gay or homosexual
I'm completely re-writing my presentation of my ideas. For the latest version see sites.google.com/site/jimhabegger/ .
Here is an extract:
Ideas for working with Baha'is who think they're gay or homosexual, or that they might be.
- Learn to appreciate the value of whatever parts of their personalities they're labeling that way, including any same-sex responses, and the value of their relationships with Baha'u'llah, including any concerns they might have about being gay or homosexual.
- Learn to share with them, as equals, ideas and experiences about same-sex relationships and about following Baha'u'llah.
- Learn to encourage and support them in their own investigation of their possibilities for the future.
- Learn to encourage and support them in their own investigation of laws and spiritual principles.
- Learn to trust them, as equals, to make their own decisions about how to practice the laws and apply the principles.
Ideas for reducing the hostility and harmfulness of the Baha'i community toward people who think or suspect that they're gay or homosexual.
- Study all available Baha'i writings, including those of Baha'u'llah, about love, marriage, romance, sex, chastity and homosexuality.
- Conduct an independent investigation in the writings about what is prohibited, and what is for individuals to decide for themselves.
- Learn to think about the questions without using the ambiguous terms that other people are using, including "homosexuality," "gay," "orientation," and "sexual relations."
- Stop applying the label "homosexual" to people's personalities.
- Stop applying the label "homosexuality" to other people's relationships and interactions.
- Develop close friendships with people who call themselves gay.
Here is an extract:
Ideas for working with Baha'is who think they're gay or homosexual, or that they might be.
- Learn to appreciate the value of whatever parts of their personalities they're labeling that way, including any same-sex responses, and the value of their relationships with Baha'u'llah, including any concerns they might have about being gay or homosexual.
- Learn to share with them, as equals, ideas and experiences about same-sex relationships and about following Baha'u'llah.
- Learn to encourage and support them in their own investigation of their possibilities for the future.
- Learn to encourage and support them in their own investigation of laws and spiritual principles.
- Learn to trust them, as equals, to make their own decisions about how to practice the laws and apply the principles.
Ideas for reducing the hostility and harmfulness of the Baha'i community toward people who think or suspect that they're gay or homosexual.
- Study all available Baha'i writings, including those of Baha'u'llah, about love, marriage, romance, sex, chastity and homosexuality.
- Conduct an independent investigation in the writings about what is prohibited, and what is for individuals to decide for themselves.
- Learn to think about the questions without using the ambiguous terms that other people are using, including "homosexuality," "gay," "orientation," and "sexual relations."
- Stop applying the label "homosexual" to people's personalities.
- Stop applying the label "homosexuality" to other people's relationships and interactions.
- Develop close friendships with people who call themselves gay.
Monday, January 2, 2012
Gays and the Baha'i Faith: message in a bottle
Please note that in the following I am not proposing that the partners in the marriage prescribed by Baha'u'llah can be two women or two men. I'm proposing that what Baha'u'llah says about marriage has no relevance at all to the lawfulness or unlawfulness of sexual and marriage relationships that do not potentially include coitus. I'm not proposing that two women or two men can have a "Baha'i marriage," in the sense of a marriage that is authenticated by a Baha'i institution. I'm proposing that there is nothing for any institution to authenticate, because there are no laws that apply to it.
Please note that in the following there is no underlying concept of "orientation" or "orientation change." What I mean by "gays" is people who call themselves gay, and sometimes, other people that gays call gay. What I mean by "straight" is whatever it might mean to whoever I'm talking to.
Please note that in the following there is no underlying fixed concept of homosexual or homosexuality. When I use those terms, I'm referring to whatever other people might mean when they use them.
Please note that in the following I'm not proposing any sweeping answer to whether same-sex sexuality is right or wrong. I'm proposing that, apart from some restrictions on the use of coital organs, it's a matter for individuals to decide for themselves.
I wrote to the Baha'i World Center about the note in the Kitab-i-Aqdas that says "The word translated here as 'boys' has, in this context, in the Arabic original, the implication of paederasty. Shoghi Effendi has interpreted this reference as a prohibition on all homosexual relations." In response, the research department said that those words were not actually taken from the writings of Shoghi Effendi. That note is someone else's interpretation of a cross-reference between the word "homosexuality" and the passage on "the subject of boys," in the margin of Shoghi Effendi's notes for the Kitab-i-Aqdas.
"Homosexual relations" seems too ambiguous to me, to resolve any questions about the lawfulness or unlawfulness of any kind of sexuality or marriage between two women or two men. Apart from that, it seems more plausible to me to imagine that Shoghi Effendi's cross-reference between the the word "homosexuality" and the passage on "the subject of boys" specifies what he meant by "homosexuality": whatever Baha'u'llah meant by "the subject of boys." In other words, the unfavorable terms that Shoghi Effendi applied to homosexuality, and the prohibition against it, might refer precisely to whatever Baha'u'llah meant by "the subject of boys." For now I'm imagining that Baha'u'llah was referring to cultural practices that revolve around using a man as a substitute for a woman, in an imitation of coitus.
I know there's nothing new in the idea that the passage on "the subject of boys" refers to such cultural practices. What I have not seen discussed is the possibility that Shoghi Effendi's cross reference between "homosexuality" and "the subject of boys" means that such cultural practices were precisely what he himself meant by "homosexuality."
----
Some ideas I'm proposing:
- Baha'u'llah's prescriptions for marriage, and prohibiting adultery, are for relationships that potentially include coitus, and have no relevance for the lawfulness or unlawfulness of sexuality and marriage between two women or two men.
- Baha'u'llah's prohibition against sodomy, and what He said about "the subject of boys," refer to cultural practices that revolve around using a man as a substitute for a woman, in an imitation of coitus.
- Apart from, possibly, some restrictions on the use of coital organs, sexuality and marriage between two women or two men are issues of chastity, not law, for individuals to decide for themselves, as long as they do not defame the Baha'i community.
- Although Baha'u'llah's prescriptions for marriage, and prohibitions against certain sexual acts, have no relevance to the lawfulness or unlawfulness of sexuality and marriage between two women or two men (apart from some restrictions on the use of coital organs), they might illuminate some relevant spiritual principles.
- Another spiritual principle that might apply is what Baha'u'llah said about our relationships with those in authority in general, and with Baha'i institutions in particular. For some gay members of the Baha'i Faith, in some communities, that might mean living apart from one's partner, and other deprivations, for an indefinite period of time. Those who are consequently deprived of sexual intimacy in their lives might be helped to face that in whatever ways people learn to live with being deprived of some other part of life, like seeing or hearing.
- One way to help end the stigma and needless restrictions on gay Baha'is might be to study and practice what Abdu'l-Baha said about teaching with wisdom, and apply it to teaching Baha'is about gays and homosexuality. Another way might be to cooperate with Baha'i institutions in protecting the reputation of the Baha'i community.
- One way to help protect gays from abuse by people trying to change them, might be to help gays who want to, to find safe and healthy ways to try to learn to have an honest, happy marriage with a person of the other sex. If no one helps them find safe and healthy ways to pursue that goal, they will have nowhere to go but to people who will harm them.
- What people mean by saying they're gay varies from person to person, but sometimes it's a deeply rooted part of their personality, like being introverted or extroverted.
- Regardless of what anyone thinks about the value of feelings for some people of the same sex that are commonly associated with sexuality, those feelings are closely intertwined with other, indisputably valuable personality traits, and can not be repressed without repressing those at the same time.
- There is no harm, necessarily, in trying to develop feelings for one sex or the other, that one has never felt before.
- If there is any possibility for a person who thinks he's gay or homosexual to have an honest, healthy and happy marriage with a person of the other sex, it will not be by trying to become a straight person. It will be by appreciating the value of the part of his personality that he calls gay or homosexual, and treating the temptations that come with it, and the feelings that don't, as challenges to be overcome like any of the other daunting challenges that most of us face in trying to have healthy and happy marriages.
Please note that in the following there is no underlying concept of "orientation" or "orientation change." What I mean by "gays" is people who call themselves gay, and sometimes, other people that gays call gay. What I mean by "straight" is whatever it might mean to whoever I'm talking to.
Please note that in the following there is no underlying fixed concept of homosexual or homosexuality. When I use those terms, I'm referring to whatever other people might mean when they use them.
Please note that in the following I'm not proposing any sweeping answer to whether same-sex sexuality is right or wrong. I'm proposing that, apart from some restrictions on the use of coital organs, it's a matter for individuals to decide for themselves.
I wrote to the Baha'i World Center about the note in the Kitab-i-Aqdas that says "The word translated here as 'boys' has, in this context, in the Arabic original, the implication of paederasty. Shoghi Effendi has interpreted this reference as a prohibition on all homosexual relations." In response, the research department said that those words were not actually taken from the writings of Shoghi Effendi. That note is someone else's interpretation of a cross-reference between the word "homosexuality" and the passage on "the subject of boys," in the margin of Shoghi Effendi's notes for the Kitab-i-Aqdas.
"Homosexual relations" seems too ambiguous to me, to resolve any questions about the lawfulness or unlawfulness of any kind of sexuality or marriage between two women or two men. Apart from that, it seems more plausible to me to imagine that Shoghi Effendi's cross-reference between the the word "homosexuality" and the passage on "the subject of boys" specifies what he meant by "homosexuality": whatever Baha'u'llah meant by "the subject of boys." In other words, the unfavorable terms that Shoghi Effendi applied to homosexuality, and the prohibition against it, might refer precisely to whatever Baha'u'llah meant by "the subject of boys." For now I'm imagining that Baha'u'llah was referring to cultural practices that revolve around using a man as a substitute for a woman, in an imitation of coitus.
I know there's nothing new in the idea that the passage on "the subject of boys" refers to such cultural practices. What I have not seen discussed is the possibility that Shoghi Effendi's cross reference between "homosexuality" and "the subject of boys" means that such cultural practices were precisely what he himself meant by "homosexuality."
----
Some ideas I'm proposing:
- Baha'u'llah's prescriptions for marriage, and prohibiting adultery, are for relationships that potentially include coitus, and have no relevance for the lawfulness or unlawfulness of sexuality and marriage between two women or two men.
- Baha'u'llah's prohibition against sodomy, and what He said about "the subject of boys," refer to cultural practices that revolve around using a man as a substitute for a woman, in an imitation of coitus.
- Apart from, possibly, some restrictions on the use of coital organs, sexuality and marriage between two women or two men are issues of chastity, not law, for individuals to decide for themselves, as long as they do not defame the Baha'i community.
- Although Baha'u'llah's prescriptions for marriage, and prohibitions against certain sexual acts, have no relevance to the lawfulness or unlawfulness of sexuality and marriage between two women or two men (apart from some restrictions on the use of coital organs), they might illuminate some relevant spiritual principles.
- Another spiritual principle that might apply is what Baha'u'llah said about our relationships with those in authority in general, and with Baha'i institutions in particular. For some gay members of the Baha'i Faith, in some communities, that might mean living apart from one's partner, and other deprivations, for an indefinite period of time. Those who are consequently deprived of sexual intimacy in their lives might be helped to face that in whatever ways people learn to live with being deprived of some other part of life, like seeing or hearing.
- One way to help end the stigma and needless restrictions on gay Baha'is might be to study and practice what Abdu'l-Baha said about teaching with wisdom, and apply it to teaching Baha'is about gays and homosexuality. Another way might be to cooperate with Baha'i institutions in protecting the reputation of the Baha'i community.
- One way to help protect gays from abuse by people trying to change them, might be to help gays who want to, to find safe and healthy ways to try to learn to have an honest, happy marriage with a person of the other sex. If no one helps them find safe and healthy ways to pursue that goal, they will have nowhere to go but to people who will harm them.
- What people mean by saying they're gay varies from person to person, but sometimes it's a deeply rooted part of their personality, like being introverted or extroverted.
- Regardless of what anyone thinks about the value of feelings for some people of the same sex that are commonly associated with sexuality, those feelings are closely intertwined with other, indisputably valuable personality traits, and can not be repressed without repressing those at the same time.
- There is no harm, necessarily, in trying to develop feelings for one sex or the other, that one has never felt before.
- If there is any possibility for a person who thinks he's gay or homosexual to have an honest, healthy and happy marriage with a person of the other sex, it will not be by trying to become a straight person. It will be by appreciating the value of the part of his personality that he calls gay or homosexual, and treating the temptations that come with it, and the feelings that don't, as challenges to be overcome like any of the other daunting challenges that most of us face in trying to have healthy and happy marriages.
Sunday, October 16, 2011
Talisman liberation movement and me: NAQ (Never-Asked Questions)
Talisman liberation movement and me: NAQ (Never-Asked Questions)
* Edit
The way this was originally titled and written seemed to equate the "Talisman liberation movement" with people "who have campaigned against the Universal House of Justice." That was a terrible injustice. There were many people involved in that movement, and I saw very few of them campaigning against the House of Justice. My abject apologies to anyone who might have been adversely affected by that. This is the introduction I should have written to avoid that misunderstanding.
From the home page of the Talisman9 Yahoo group:
"Talisman9 succeeds talisman@indiana.edu and talisman@umich.edu as a list for the free and open discussion of issues in the Baha'i Faith from an intellectual and spiritual point of view."
There's a long and eventful history behind that, which I call the "Talisman liberation movement," in which I see some efforts to free the religious spirit from what the Universal House of Justice calls "the shackles that have so far prevented it from bringing to bear the healing influence of which it is capable." There were many people involved in that movement, and I saw very few of them campaigning against the House of Justice, but my attention to the movement revolved largely around those few, and a few people who were feuding with them, in some Internet discussions. I posted quite a bit in those discussions, for many months, and I posted quite a bit about them in other discussions and in my blogs. My discussions and correspondence with them led to friendships with some of them, which some of my other friends disapproved of, to say the least.
* End edit
1. Why am I so interested in some members and former members of the Baha'i Faith who have campaigned against the Universal House of Justice?
2. Why am I still thinking about a feud that happened years ago?
3. What am I trying to do?
I've given up hope of anyone ever understanding my reasons, and I don't know of anyone who even cares, but I've decided to answer those questions here anyway.
1. Why am I so interested in some members and former members of the Baha'i Faith who have campaigned against the Universal House of Justice?
Because of the divisions that I see between them and some other Baha'is.
That might raise the question "Why single out those divisions, out of all the divisions between people in the world, for special attention?"
I'm not sure, but I've learned to trust my intuition about some things, and I'm trusting it about this.
Some possible reasons:
- I see a need for the Baha'i community to address its own social issues as frankly and openly as it addresses everyone else's.
- I see a need to focus on one division or another sometimes. I've also focused sometimes on some other specific divisions, including some revolving around race, class, gender, religion, ideology, language, culture, economics and gays.
- When I see people doing and saying things that alarm me, I feel a responsibility to try to see things their way, see the good in what they're doing, see what I can learn from them, and see how I might serve their best interests. That's deeply rooted in my understanding of following Baha'u'llah. I can't imagine anything more alarming to me than what I saw some people saying and doing, on both sides, in the feuding associated with Dialogue Magazine and the Baha'i Talisman lists. I spent some time with them trying to see things their way, see the good in what they were doing, see what I could learn from them, and see how I might serve their best interests. In the process I developed a friendly personal interest in some of them.
- Another reason might be the campaigns I've seen in each camp, trying to discredit the other, more than I've seen in other divisions between Baha'is.
2. Why am I still thinking about a feud that happened years ago?
I don't see the same open feuding in Internet discussions that I saw before, but I still see people drawing the same lines. I still see campaigns in each camp trying to discredit the other. I don't see any less need to do what I'm trying to do, than ever before.
3. What am I trying to do?
See:
Personal pages
fellowship
http://www.geocities.ws/geotalk/fellowship/fellowship.html
Deeds, Not Words
http://www.geocities.ws/netsofwonder/deedsnotwords/home.html
Glimpses of the Dialogue/Talisman Chronicles
http://www.oocities.org/geotalk/glimpses/
Ideas for working with abused and marginalized people
http://www.geocities.ws/ozpeople/home.html
- Messages from the Universal House of Justice
Letter to the World's Religious Leaders
http://bahai-library.com/published.uhj/religious.leaders.html
One Common Faith
http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/bic/OCF/
* Edit
The way this was originally titled and written seemed to equate the "Talisman liberation movement" with people "who have campaigned against the Universal House of Justice." That was a terrible injustice. There were many people involved in that movement, and I saw very few of them campaigning against the House of Justice. My abject apologies to anyone who might have been adversely affected by that. This is the introduction I should have written to avoid that misunderstanding.
From the home page of the Talisman9 Yahoo group:
"Talisman9 succeeds talisman@indiana.edu and talisman@umich.edu as a list for the free and open discussion of issues in the Baha'i Faith from an intellectual and spiritual point of view."
There's a long and eventful history behind that, which I call the "Talisman liberation movement," in which I see some efforts to free the religious spirit from what the Universal House of Justice calls "the shackles that have so far prevented it from bringing to bear the healing influence of which it is capable." There were many people involved in that movement, and I saw very few of them campaigning against the House of Justice, but my attention to the movement revolved largely around those few, and a few people who were feuding with them, in some Internet discussions. I posted quite a bit in those discussions, for many months, and I posted quite a bit about them in other discussions and in my blogs. My discussions and correspondence with them led to friendships with some of them, which some of my other friends disapproved of, to say the least.
* End edit
1. Why am I so interested in some members and former members of the Baha'i Faith who have campaigned against the Universal House of Justice?
2. Why am I still thinking about a feud that happened years ago?
3. What am I trying to do?
I've given up hope of anyone ever understanding my reasons, and I don't know of anyone who even cares, but I've decided to answer those questions here anyway.
1. Why am I so interested in some members and former members of the Baha'i Faith who have campaigned against the Universal House of Justice?
Because of the divisions that I see between them and some other Baha'is.
That might raise the question "Why single out those divisions, out of all the divisions between people in the world, for special attention?"
I'm not sure, but I've learned to trust my intuition about some things, and I'm trusting it about this.
Some possible reasons:
- I see a need for the Baha'i community to address its own social issues as frankly and openly as it addresses everyone else's.
- I see a need to focus on one division or another sometimes. I've also focused sometimes on some other specific divisions, including some revolving around race, class, gender, religion, ideology, language, culture, economics and gays.
- When I see people doing and saying things that alarm me, I feel a responsibility to try to see things their way, see the good in what they're doing, see what I can learn from them, and see how I might serve their best interests. That's deeply rooted in my understanding of following Baha'u'llah. I can't imagine anything more alarming to me than what I saw some people saying and doing, on both sides, in the feuding associated with Dialogue Magazine and the Baha'i Talisman lists. I spent some time with them trying to see things their way, see the good in what they were doing, see what I could learn from them, and see how I might serve their best interests. In the process I developed a friendly personal interest in some of them.
- Another reason might be the campaigns I've seen in each camp, trying to discredit the other, more than I've seen in other divisions between Baha'is.
2. Why am I still thinking about a feud that happened years ago?
I don't see the same open feuding in Internet discussions that I saw before, but I still see people drawing the same lines. I still see campaigns in each camp trying to discredit the other. I don't see any less need to do what I'm trying to do, than ever before.
3. What am I trying to do?
See:
Personal pages
fellowship
http://www.geocities.ws/geotalk/fellowship/fellowship.html
Deeds, Not Words
http://www.geocities.ws/netsofwonder/deedsnotwords/home.html
Glimpses of the Dialogue/Talisman Chronicles
http://www.oocities.org/geotalk/glimpses/
Ideas for working with abused and marginalized people
http://www.geocities.ws/ozpeople/home.html
- Messages from the Universal House of Justice
Letter to the World's Religious Leaders
http://bahai-library.com/published.uhj/religious.leaders.html
One Common Faith
http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/bic/OCF/
Sunday, January 16, 2011
Wayfarer's tales revived, maybe
I might start posting here again, now and then. I've enabled comments, and fixed two broken links.
Saturday, January 15, 2011
How to find common ground with feuding Baha'is?
In the past, in my relationships with people who claim allegiance to Baha'u'llah while continually depreciating what the House of Justice is promoting, and with their detractors, thinking of them as followers of Baha'u'llah has repeatedly led me to dead ends, contradictions, frustrations and confusion. I might give that up for a while. Taking their stated motives and purposes at face value also led me to dead ends, contradictions, frustrations and confusion. I might give that up for a while, too.
Where does that leave me? I don't know. Maybe try to find some common interests, possibly unrelated to Baha'u'llah, by trial and error. Maybe look for some enduring interests in their conversations, that interest me, and range farther and wider in discussing my own interests.
Where does that leave me? I don't know. Maybe try to find some common interests, possibly unrelated to Baha'u'llah, by trial and error. Maybe look for some enduring interests in their conversations, that interest me, and range farther and wider in discussing my own interests.
Wednesday, December 23, 2009
Closed until further notice
I don't have access to Blogspot any more. I used a proxy to post this, and to disable comments, because they were being spammed.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)
